Moving right along....let's analyze this for a quick second:
A) They didn't get paid enough
B) The magazine had the nerve to refer to Italians as Guidos
C) They didn't know the magazine was for the gay community.
If you guessed B, you are the perfect member for ItalianAware! Unfortunately, you would be wrong. The cast wasn't insulted for the Guido reference- they were upset that no one told them the magazine was for the gay community. At this point, that is pretty much par for the course.
What we have here is a rampant glorification of Italian stereotypes. I assure you that if the cast was African American, the headline would never read "The Negro Ideal." Moreover, any magazine that had the audacity to print such a headline would have been rallied against for years by the African American community- and rightfully so. But, when it happens to Italians its as if it hasn't happened at all. In fact, I had no idea this headline happened until someone on Facebook sent it to me...26 days after it published.
Where were the Italian organizations? Where were the NIAF and UNICO to tell The Village Voice to knock it off? By these Italian American organizations being unforgivably inconsistent, they are sending a message that the Italian community really doesn't care about these negative portrayals. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...unfortunately, the major organizations seem to have little of either.
If the Italian community doesn't come together and take a stand, the day will come where we are openly referred to as Guineas, Wops and Dagos on TV. Its bound to happen. The Italian identity is not progressing in America-its regressing. The time to act is now.
Your entire premise is absurd. "Guido" is not equivalent to "Negro" or any other racial/ethnic slur, not even "Guinea", "Dago" or "Wop". It was very likely first used by Italian-Americans against newer Italian immigrants, and today it describes a youth subculture that's becoming less and less Italian (note the ethnically diverse cast of Jersey Shore).
ReplyDeleteRead this: http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2010/10/guido-isnt-an-ethnic-slur.html
I'm sorry, I have to disagree. "Guido" is an insult and a slur. From the looks of it, the people who commented on your blog post agree.
ReplyDeleteIf you really believe that "guido" has nothing to do with insulting Italians, why was there such a backlash from the Italian American community? Why has MTV scaled the Italian references and imagery down to virtually 0?
MTV was beating everyone over the head with the concept of Italians = Guidos from the very beginning of the show. It was deliberate and intentional. Do you mean to tell me the Italian flag on their garage door was indicative of the cast's diverse ethnic backgrounds? Give me a break.
I'm not telling you to be a victim- I'm telling you to be aware of what people and the media are doing to US. A network would have never gotten away with doing that to any other ethnic group. But when it comes to Italians, its entertainment- not stereotypes.
If you still don't believe me, or millions of other Italians- ads for the show called Guidos a "species" Do you think a show with an all African American cast with a headline- "Come watch this new species" would ever make it to the air?
What you do for one you should do for all. You can't pick and choose who you're going protect from stereotypes and who you won't.
You haven't demonstrated that "Guido" is a slur, only that it's traditionally associated with Italians, which no one is denying. It describes a subculture that originated among Italian working class youth in the 70s and 80s. However, today many other ethnic groups have been drawn into it. Though the Jersey Shore cast is still more than half Italian, which explains the flags and such. That's how Guidos behave. It's not MTV's fault.
ReplyDeleteThe reason there's so much controversy over the show is because people today get offended at the drop of a hat. Every ethnic group has its own "anti-defamation" lobby, and networks usually cave in to the pressure, as MTV finally did. My blog post cites Italian-American scholars who've studied the Guido phenomenon and its history. What "millions" of uninformed and overly sensitive Italians think is irrelevant.
And stop using blacks as a reference point all the time. It shows incredible historical ignorance on your part. Referring to them as a species would have all sorts of racist, pseudoscientific, colonialist and slavery connotations that don't exist with Italians. Besides, you're making another false analogy. Calling Guidos a species is not the same as calling Italian-Americans a species, and so not equivalent to your African-American example.
You obviously do not know enough about the stereotypes Italians faced upon arriving to this country. Italians were characterized as "ape-ish", greasy and and swarthy. As a result, political cartoons like this sprung about That certainly looks like a new species to me.
ReplyDeleteYou see, the stereotypes of Italians have centered around us being either sub-human or not white. The term "guinea" is believed to be derived from the term "guinea negro" which was used to describe a native of Guinea, West Africa.
The analogies I make, or that every Italian American organization makes are right on point. These words are used derisively. I have never been called a "guido" in a complimentary way- it has always been used to demean me and my ancestors.
Contrary to your belief, MTV did not cave. It never apologized, never retracted the word, and defended its usage. The same would not have been done if it were for any other ethnic group.
And, if what millions of Italians believe to be offensive is irrelevant, than what basis do we have on what is and is not offensive? Your say so? Every Italian American organization, from the ones concerned about stereotypes and imagery to the ones concerning teachers and lawyers spoke out against the use of this term.
Comparisons to apes and blacks in nasty political cartoons were much more prevalent against the Irish. Italians got off easy by contrast. And anyway, nothing changes the fact that Italians were never colonized or enslaved or treated like animals the way blacks were, and therefore don't carry the same "baggage", which makes your analogies ridiculous. It's apples and oranges.
ReplyDeleteYou said yourself that "MTV scaled the Italian references and imagery down to virtually 0", which means they caved. Anti-defamation groups complained, and MTV caved.
And I put your word "millions" in quotes for a reason. Most Italians couldn't care less about the stuff you whiny anti-def weirdos bitch about. They enjoy Mafia movies and think Guidos are "cool".
The bottom line is that "Guido" is not an ethnic slur, according to professors Donald Tricarico and Fred Gardaphè. You haven't disproved that, and you can't.
Comparisons to apes and blacks in nasty political cartoons were much more prevalent against the Irish. Italians got off easy by contrast. And anyway, nothing changes the fact that Italians were never colonized or enslaved or treated like animals the way blacks were, and therefore don't carry the same "baggage", which makes your analogies ridiculous. It's apples and oranges.
ReplyDeleteYou said yourself that "MTV scaled the Italian references and imagery down to virtually 0", which means they caved. Anti-defamation groups complained, and MTV caved.
And I put your word "millions" in quotes for a reason. Most Italians couldn't care less about the stuff you whiny anti-def weirdos bitch about. They enjoy Mafia movies and think Guidos are "cool".
The bottom line is that "Guido" is not an ethnic slur, according to professors Donald Tricarico and Fred Gardaphè. You haven't disproved that, and you can't.
Italians were kicked around by the rest of Europe since the fall of Rome. Were the enslaved? No. But they were subjugated to a living nightmare in their own homeland by foreign forces, namely the Spanish and the French. That subjugation merely took a new form upon arrival in this country. They were labeled "dark skinned" and "guinea" and separated from white society. In some sense, we still are not viewed as totally white.
ReplyDeleteYou want to say my comparison to blacks is apples and oranges- I believe it to be the same. Booker T. Washington wrote after visiting Italy that, "Negroes in the slums of New Orleans, Philadelphia or New York City were much better off than the "corresponding classes in Naples and other Italian cities.
Was a black activist lying? Even he compared Italians to Blacks and said the blacks were better off. My comparison echoes that in the sense that Italians were treated on a level that blacks were.
And again, it is millions of Italians. Do you think all of these organizations are making statements their constituents don't believe in? I too have been flooded with emails on a constant basis on videos and shows that my users believe are anti-italian.
Just because you found 2 researchers who have a different angle on "guido" doesn't mean you've proven anything. And again, I have yet to find a person who has been called a "guido" in a positive manner. So, say what you like- but it is derisive. If it originated in the Italian community or not, it was meant to be offensive towards Italians.
Are you joking? You're not seriously comparing Spanish and French rule in parts of Italy to colonialism and slavery in Africa. And did you forget that the Roman Empire had ruled over both Spain and France for hundreds of years, enslaving many of their people? So who's the real victim? If anything, I'd call it payback.
ReplyDeleteAnd are you also illiterate? Booker T. Washington was talking about poverty in Italy, not "subjugation". He wasn't making any of the ridiculous parallels that you are between the treatment of blacks and the treatment of Italians, because there are no such parallels, except in your deluded mind. Italian immigrants may have been denigrated in a few political cartoons and called names in the schoolyard, but legally they were white on arrival and enjoyed all the benefits of white privilege.
The researchers I cited don't have a "different angle" on Guido. They have knowledge and insight that comes from studying the history of that term and the subculture it's now associated with. The anti-def crowd, and the idiots who email you, have knee-jerk reactions based on ignorance.
You would call it payback? Did you even attend one history class in your life? The peoples of France and Spain were rapidly assimilated into the Roman Empire once warring and feuds had ended. Did enslavement occur? Yes. But, slaves were not the driving force behind Rome's conquering these lands. Rome's M.O. was to latinize the area and have it become a "money-maker" that paid tribute to Rome. You can't accomplish this by enslaving the population. It is for this reason that Rome allowed locals to hold on to their religions, customs and traditions- provided that they paid tribute.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, Rome brought these people civilization and culture. So, their payback was to subjugate Italians and keep them impoverished and ignorant? Europe, for the entire middle ages, sought to unify like Rome once did. This is an admiration for what Rome did- not retribution.
Booker T. Washington was talking about their status, as well as their income. Read La Storia, by Ben Morreale and figure it out for yourself. Washington was there just after unification, and witnessed the trainwreck foreign leadership left behind.
More to the point, you should know that a great deal of the Italians in this country are of southern origins. Southern Italians have long been described as non-white by fellow Europeans, including Northern Italians
White on arrival was based on what America had known about Italian immigrants- Northern Italian immigrants.
And don't insult my viewers and contributors. They at least have the wherewithal to realize when someone is making them out to be an ass. If you want to walk around being labeled a guido, by all means go ahead. You are fool if you think someone is calling you a guido lovingly.
What you're saying about Rome's imperialism applies to all empires. There are always benefits to being colonized, in addition to the downsides. "Foreign leadership" was not solely (or even mostly) responsible for Italy's poverty, and wasn't what Booker T. Washington was talking about. Your own source cites "overpopulation" and "lack of arable land" as the primary causes.
ReplyDeleteHave you even read White on Arrival? It's not about Northern Italians. Here's how the author describes it:
"My study begins in the late nineteenth century when Italian mass migration to the United States began in earnest and when southern Italian immigrants began to significantly outnumber their northern compatriots."
And then he says this:
"More important, for all the racial discrimination and prejudice that Italians faced as Latins, Mediterraneans, southern Italians, and 'new' immigrants, they were still accepted as white."
I'm well aware of the lies Northern Europeans and Northern Italians have told about Southern Italians. Thankfully, that kind of nonsense has been discredited, and the few people who still believe it (White Nationalists and Padanian Separatists) are relegated to ranting on the internet, where I've appropriately refuted them.
And for the record, I've never been labeled a Guido, because I don't behave like those morons. If I did, then I would deserve to be called that.
While we do differ on names and stereotypes, I do believe that we have the same intentions- we want to dispel rumors and possible stereotypes about Italians. The only difference is the spin we have each put on it.
ReplyDeleteYou want the truth out there- and so do I. Our views are not in conflict with one another, I just happen to be writing about facts that are currently taking place in the Italian community.
Where we differ is in what we are labeling offensive. I happen to agree with you that the movements in Northern Italy, and the myths held on to in Europe and America that Southern Italians are somehow inferior and/or a different race of people are completely untrue and offensive. The study by Richard Lynn is another baffling and, in my view, offensive, take on southern Italians.
I merely see the nonsense going on in TV and the media as an extension of old prejudices and misconceptions of Italians. Should Italians who act like idiots be labeled whatever the media likes? Possibly. But, we both can't ignore the fact that it does affect the way the world perceives the 99.9% of us that do not act that way. I don't want the world perceiving us that way- and I try to tell the other side of the story on my blog and site.
Richard Lynn is one of a new breed of "scientific" racists. He focuses most of his efforts on black IQ, but obviously couldn't pass up the opportunity to "prove" old notions about North-South differences in Italy. If you've looked around my blog, you probably saw the entries on that ridiculous study of his:
ReplyDeletehttp://italianthro.blogspot.com/2010/09/refuting-richard-lynns-italian-iq-study.html
http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2010/10/richard-lynn-further-refuted.html